Beach Road Water Supply Tower Dismantled!

Regular readers of the blog will remember that the water tower located at the end of Wall Street which was to boost pressure to Beach Road properties on the seaward side of the sea wall had rusted to an unsafe state which concerned several residents in terms of Health & Safety, especially with 6-12 year old children playing near it regularly which was first noticed in the blog posting here

Our Wall Street Sewage Committee Management team, democratically elected of course by a majority of residents several months ago have been also reluctant to work in the sewage shed for the same reasons cited.

This impasse led recently following the recent rains to the sewage system failing to work adequately in terms of flow rate as the sewage outlet mono pump failed and needed maintenance work carried out upon it to get it going again to reduce the levels. This was reported to all residents several weeks ago and they were informed of the situation. As this failed several weeks ago during a dry period, it caused no problem, as tanks 1 & 2 were still very low and the team decided that it could be left until Guy's men decommissioned and removed the tank, which they had already planned to do as the water infrastructure work continued at their project schedule.

Unfortunately the recent heavy rains and due to an increased amount of residents during the period compared to last year - this week it caused a lot of sewage to back up to high levels in the road manholes and something had to be done urgently. After some complaints, and angry exchanges from certain neighbours whose properties form a lower junction point to receive sewage flow from other properties before it joins the main pipe along the road started to complain to us that levels were unacceptably high. The irony of the situation of course was that the person who actually was complaining the most about the system had flatly refused to pay a fair share towards maintenance costs over the last year.

This of course has annoyed the rest of the community who are paying a fair share towards costs immensely, but as much as this was extremely unfair to the majority of residents, it does affect fully paid up users of the system. After the usual inter-road gossip, negativity and non-constructive ill-informed non technical discussions across fences - the more rational active and technically minded members and the elected management team actually started to think about a sensible solution to the complexity of the situation.

Following a lot of heated emails and verbal exchanges, which damaged already terse relationships between the single household and the rest of the community - our efforts to use this situation to accellerate the current Beach Road water infrastructure work achieved a suitable mutually acceptable solution for all parties.

So I'm very glad to say and report that Guy Smith brilliantly realised our desperation and difficulty that was threatening our community in Wall Street and promptly organised his men rapidly over the last 2 days despite being very busy with harvesting first bypassing then removing the dilapidated tower today so that work on the sewage system in Wall Street could re-commence.

A good result for everyone concerned, and Andy Haynes and I (as I've taken a day off work today) immediately took the opportunity to re-enter the sewage shed and started work looking at what was needed for the pump maintenance, he will report back to the committee and inform us of any parts that are required to get the pump working again, so we can reduce levels in the system asap and we will then inform residents of the work done in the usual way after consulting with the committee.

We'd like to thank Guy for all his efforts, something I of course did personally in a meeting with him earlier today, where I reassured him that it was another step towards positive communal cooperation.

Superb Collection of Photos of Lee-Over-Sands

Found this today - an amazing collection of photos of our Area, covering almost every subject - from aerial shots (like the one below) to local nature - even Bob the nature reserve warden has a photo on here.

To see them all use the link below - it has almost everything photographically taken in digital form trawled from several different websites - such as Flickr etc - all collected conveniently in one place... under the name "Lee-Over-Sands" tons of brilliant photos!

Enjoy - worth bookmarking this one and revisiting, as I'm sure new photos will be automatically added.

http://www.fluidr.com/places/United+Kingdom/England/Lee-over-Sands

New Water Supply is switched on - old one is now off

Residents will find today that the old water supply pipe from Smith's Farm's land that has supplied Lee-Over-Sands since Andrew Smith  installed it 30 years ago has now been permanently decommissioned and disconnected.

The Original Pipe route (approximate)

The New Pipe Route

Workers from Veolia and Smith's Farms over the last few days have today as promised made sure Wall Street's new water main that has been laid from Lee-Wick-Farm is fully operational - and ready for householders to connect up to today.

Those of us who are able-bodied and technical and keen to do DIY have already connected ourselves up having prepared for this last week with a mix of pipes and adapters supplied by Guy - and our own fittings provided by ourselves (e.g. for new stopcocks etc). I for example took this as a perfect opportunity to fit totally new pipework coming in to my already renewed pipes inside the house. I can report my water connection is done - the new water works and seems a similar pressure/flow rate - although apparently there could be some chlorine still in the pipes for a couple of days until it flushes through the system, so we're being careful and using pre-bottled drinking water until we get the all clear.

Currently some some of our other older residents are today being helped to connect by John (a plumber contracted by Guy to help) who is supervising and on call to any residents who need help reconnecting to the new supply where the pipes connect into their houses under their floors etc.

Diagram showing recommended connection details for a new pipe main supply going into a building

Work is proceeding on Beach Road's new pipework in the meantime, with the new pipe going around the back of Wall Street and across the sea wall, Guy Smith's workforce are now starting to organise its path across the sea wall at the end of Wall Street.

Although we haven't heard any firm details yet It looks like the old water tower that supplies Beach Road (at the end of Wall Street) is being bypassed - which makes sense as it has recently been condemned as unsafe due to its supports rusting by the local council and thus is to be dismantled and removed asap (presumably sometime after their new pipe is connected up).

Water Supply - Wall Street - changeover date announced for new main

Guy Smith has advised residents that they will be put onto his new water main supply on Monday 4th of July as most of the work on the main route along Lee-Wick Lane towards Beach Road and pipework to each home in Wall Street is now in place - and awaiting Veolia's inspection/chlorination to sanitise it before use.

Residents will have to change their homes over to use the new incoming pipes on Monday, when the old existing pipe network installed by his father Andrew Smith (almost 40 years ago) will be disconnected. A plumber will be on-hand all day in Wall Street if things go to plan date-wise to help any residents connect who cannot do it themselves or have difficulties.

The new water supply connection as before will be owned by Smith's Farms - the hope is that residents will agree to become a billing entity (or that someone will take on the individual responsibility personally for the billing and subsequently charge residents based on usage via the meters which will be installed on the new pipe where it enters each property's land). Guy also hopes that in the long run his efforts at doing the pipework installation to Veolia "spec" will result in the company eventually adopting the system, which in the long run could remove the need for shared billing - so individual homeowners are billed by the water company either at a fixed annual rate or based on their water meter reading.

As part of agreeing to a shared billing system for the houses on the landward side of the sea wall, there are still related issues to resolve with regards to easements (access to land to maintain the pipe) which Smith's Farms has come up with some good solutions to - which were proposed in a recent letter to all householders, along with a map showing the work done and Guy's proposals for the eventual changeover to the new supply.

With this in mind I would advise that all residents soon need to look into addressing the legal issues with regard to this and getting a written agreement from Smith's Farms which outlines and guarantees future access/usage with regards to maintenance before they hand over their £1000 per property contributions for the new supply pipework/work that Smith's Farms has asked for.

UPDATE: Guy's letter to residents is below for those residents who might not have seen it:
Click on each image below to read/view them in detail:

Fishing nets reported on Lee-Over-Sands beach

Local Sea Fishing fans have reported seeing fishing nets on our beach, anchored with Buoys almost 150 yards out from the shore - click here for more details 

No 4 Wall Street is up for sale

Margaret is selling her beloved home, see links below for more details.


http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/14743636

http://search.issl.co.uk/detailsLite.aspx?chainid=2238&propertyid=467080036

http://www.johnstiffestateagents.co.uk/search-results.asp?chainID=2238&countries=england&txtQuickSearch=CO16+8EU&contract=buying&ddlPayMin=&ddlPayMax=&ddlBedrooms=&ddlResultsOrder=&latestFirst=&submit=Search

Entire Community's water disconnected

Today, workers from Bonds digging the new water supply on behalf of Smith's Farms for our community, accidentally broke the existing water supply pipe near Robbie's house. As each branch of the pipes around the houses don't have a stopcock, the entire network supplying both roads had to be switched off.

A plumber has been called to repair the old pipe, and is due to arrive tomorrow morning meaning that householders will be without mains water for the night.

Robbie has kindly put a hosepipe on the incoming supply in the manhole opposite the end of Wall Street that we can use in the meantime for emergencies.

UPDATE: The pipe was repaired as promised the following day, however while digging round the end of Wall Street, another break occurred. And again it was repaired on the morning of the following day resulting in residents enduring almost 2 and a half days without water.

Pay up £1000 before June or have your water supply cut off!

We've all finally had something in writing from Smith's Farms about their intention to cut off the water supply that their family has provided to the entire Lee-Over-Sands community of 34 properties since their father bought the original "Healthy Lee-Over-Sands estate" as it was called back in the 1930's to 1950's and accepted the covenants to continue supply as part of the land purchase.

In the last year they have quoted maintenance and ongoing cost issues as their reason for doing this. However residents have not taken anything seriously as there has been nothing put in writing until now with only a month to their own deadline.

In June, as stated in an undated letter hand delivered at the end of April, we heard that they plan on cutting us off from their water supply if we don't all agree to pay £1000 each towards a new proposed "communal" water supply pipe running along Lee-Wick-Lane and release their liability to us as a private water supplier.

Smith's Farms of Wigborough Wick Lane obviously want to resolve the issue as soon as possible, after talking to us a year ago, we found that the bill quoted by water companies to run a new main was just too high for residents to afford. In early 2011, Smith's Farms ran a low specification non water company adoptable pipe through Lee-Wick-Farm in advance before any formal consultation with all residents was made, the outcome of which and subsequent refusal for re-digging a better pipe has led us now to have no alternatives but to accept a communally owned pipe supply rather than a "to spec" pipe supply that could be later adopted and managed by a water company.

Obviously residents are concerned by this step, as full water company adoption of a supply pipe will make it more convenient for the older residents to not have to worry about in the future should it develop faults.

After investigating alternatives (or the lack of them) we've asked for more information about how this will work, so far Mr Smith has not gone into any technical details about most importantly what we will get for our money, how the specification of the new pipework will compare to the old and how much will it cost us in the long-run, and whether Guy and Smith's Farms in exchange for the new pipework and release of liability will allow us free access to pipework in the future for maintenance where it crosses his land.

Additionally we're also concerned that he has admitted the existing system is "leaky" and "un-hygeinic" which obviously contravenes the laws on private water supplies and brings into question what we have been drinking!

His proposal for only replacing the supply to the edge of our community area falls short in scope, as the possibility of leaks in the system around the network of pipes around the two roads could lead us to a very large bill in relation to leakage, so a large portion of residents want the entire system replaced, and I'm sure most residents would be happy to spend more if extra cost is required to have a totally new system.

Aside from human rights legislation questioning the illegality of even being able to actively disconnect any users from a fully functioning water supply, from a legal standpoint we are keen to see Smith's Farm's encumberence and their desire to resolve the matter moving forwards and reach an affordable and sensible compromise. Worryingly though after seeing the tone and content of Mr Smith's recent emails as residents it looks like by issuing a disconnection date they plan on forcing us into accepting something that might cost us a lot to maintain in the future, becomes hard to manage due to non-payers and might be a lower standard to the current supply without resident's mutual agreement.

A number of residents, myself included have already asked for more technical details regarding their intentions  but as yet have had no written reply, Once I get a reply I will put it here for residents to read.

"You want fries with that?"

A farm in north Essex has been given the green light to create a micro-distillery to make potato vodka.

Blackwater Farm in St Osyth plans to convert one of its barns to produce the spirit from the vegetable, a popular production method in eastern Europe.

Tendring District Council approved the planning application from RF Clarke Farms earlier this week.

Read the full article here

Shoeburyness Qinetiq Explosions

After having my house shake several times over the last 2 days in a totally unacceptable way - I spotted an article about the explosions at Shoeburyness and decided to write an email about it to the author of the article and other influential persons, as lets face it - its getting really bad again!

Here's another link... http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=120105185386




Dear Mr Duddridge

Re your comments in this article - 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252988/Bomb-disposal-squads-barred-testing-explosives-neighbours-complain-noise.html

I live in Lee-Over-Sands on Colne Point, St Osyth, Essex which is 15 miles away from the explosions from Shoeburyness - Despite what you think, the explosions are still going on, we've had peace and quiet over the winter and not many really big explosion vibrations until the last two weeks.

Every now and again they seem to test really massive explosions - which make all the houses in my road shake like there's an earthquake going on - yet Qinetic insist ground vibrations aren't possible - and its only air pressure, which is below their prescribed limits. The smaller ones aren't too bad and are tolerable - but when it makes your entire home shake... thats a different matter entirely. I work from my home as a software designer - when I moved to this area I had no idea how incredible the tremors were until several weeks after moving in - whilst the peace and quiet here is fabulous - and why I moved here, each time the tests go on - its not just humans that feel the effects here - even the birds in the SSSI sanctuary panic and fly making loud noises of fright.

Basically the issue for us here is not sound from the explosions - its vibration. Our homes are behind and surrounded partly by the sea wall defences, which seems to amplify the shockwave, and perhaps the geological structure of the land here seems to be particularly susceptible to this.

After many, many complaints to them most residents here start to give up with the process and don't see any point, because it just keeps going on and on! When you ring the company's complaints line you get the same old story about decibel levels. Of course an explosion sounds quieter in the air at a short distance - what they don't measure or consider is that sound travels underground in low frequency waves for a great distance - so this form of monitoring is inaccurate. Perhaps they are burying munitions and detonating them to reduce short distance noise - only causing us worse problems miles away!

Basically these sort of tests should be done in a very remote location - or limits should be put on magnitude of explosions. I fail to see how any IED in Afganistan can match these huge explosions scale wise - so I can't see how any of this is justified - Larger explosions should be done offshore on a distant uninhabited island in the outer reaches of the UK - not 20 or 30 miles from the capital and the most populated area of the UK.

Lots of residents who pay the taxes that allow the war to be fought in Afganistan have to deal with the noise and vibrations - remember that we fund this!

And did we as citizens want the war in Afganistan or approve it by referendum - no

I for one think your comments are typical for an MP - If you think its acceptable to tolerate your house being shaken - why not try it yourself!

Regards

Derek Foley

If you want to ring up and complain about the noise - make yourself heard - make a note of the time and date and complain via the telephone 0800 056 0108


Rather amusingly, I complained to their line at 11:44 and while I was on the phone to Carolyn Circus, three explosions went off shaking my house, and another single one minutes later.


---------------------------------------------------
Update 21/04/2011


There is now a website where you can check for any "activity", or subscribe to email alerts, such as the one I received below.


http://www.qinetiq.com/home_shoeburyness/exceptional_activity.html

Crime Rates

If you're interested to see the crime rates for our hamlet and information about the Police officers who are assigned as our local constables, you can see it on a great new website - Police.uk
Take a look click here

Beach Road's 'The Town Hall' is for sale

Probably the most substantially constructed dwelling in Lee-Over-Sands, aka 'The Town Hall' as many Beach Roaders call it, is up for sale on a major web-property portal. The private sale sign has been up for several months now. Click here to visit the listing on RightMove

Lee-Over-Sands Gypsy site

Just heard from a reader of our blog (a local journalist) that the application has been turned down, mainly on the grounds of the site being in a flood risk area. What makes this a hollow victory for us is that this decision was apparently not made because of our resident's objections but zoning technicalities. The local opinions of real neighbours which should be what actually matters in the decision making process - so ironically sometimes, we can get a result through our so called elected democratic process - just not the right one we hope for!

Access Road Maintenance 2011 - Hopes & Dreams

I've noticed a big deterioration in our private access road from the EA depot to Wall Street since the weather has deteriorated in October.

Regular readers of the blog already know this year Andy Haynes and I did our best to voluntarily improve it for all residents and households during the summer using our own funds and manpower as the owners of the road had not bothered to maintain it and maintain our access rights. Thankfully our desperation fuelled work earlier in the year has remained intrinsically sound and unaffected by the wet weather. Hopefully residents driving over it will notice that all the hardcore re-inforced areas we filled in the summer have remained level - proving that it was a sensible decision.

The remainder of the rough-track road that we did not work on covered with a fine gravel covering has once more moved around dramatically with the wet weather and late summer vehicular movement - producing large pot-holes and bumps which have started to re-appear throughout the 1.6 km making it tougher to get a normal car down once more.

By spring these areas will have deteriorated further - in 2011 I'll be contributing another £180 towards another 20 ton load of hardcore - which is what I provided last year in addition to the 70 tons Andy and his mother paid for.

I've been thinking about some of the previous negative attitudes towards the work by a couple of individuals, and I think a good compromise would be to make the entry point of the road look intentionally uneven to put off car-based explorers and the "boy-racer" fraternity which they cited as the main reasons for not improving the surface. If we improve 95% of the road past that point we can move up and down more easily and still maintain the feeling of isolation we adore!

Given all the positive encouragement we had last year from all the other residents, hopefully this year given our new spirit of community cooperation we'll be able to rally support and get some more help both financially and physically to improve it further!

BT Infinity - Fibre-Optic Broadband to suit the 21st Century

I'd advise all residents of Lee-Over-Sands to vote for this (click here), our broadband speeds are typically 1.5 megabits or less - so any fundamental system improvements to broadband will solve our speed issues, which is mainly because we are so far from the nearest exchange, which reduces our conventional ADSL broadband speed.

Lee-Over-Sands Gypsy site

I spotted a news item today about traveller's sites, and noticed someone had made a comment at the bottom of the local newspaper's website edition of their article - albeit erroneously and misinformed with regards to the current status about our site in Wall Street.

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/8416446.Severalls_travellers____site_idea_won___t_work__says_gipsy_supporter/?ref=rss

Technically the council originally only granted residency and permission for caravans on the small site to a past resident (Mr Grinrod) for 5 years for one immediate family only. This was revoked technically when a different family, the Dorans moved in. In July 2010 the family disappeared, leaving the site unoccupied.

Since then a yellow planning notice has been attached to the telegraph pole outside the site and letters sent to immediate neighbours only about an extension allowing caravans onsite being applied until 2012.

Whilst the Doran family themselves were no trouble, apart from their work vans going in and out dozens of times a day the only major problems we had were with their extended family during visits - what concerns me is that there is massive uncertainty about the quality of future tenants - I'd suggest to all residents that we all write to the council to individually object, as its unclear who might eventually return to the site, it could be a decent family like the Dorans, or the ownership could be passed on to another family by sale or lease/rent of the land - and we could be left with the problems Phil and Carol unfortunately faced in the past.

If you want to support or object to this application here is the link to the Tendring Planning website.
http://idox.tendringdc.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=neighbourComments&keyVal=L8DCONQB09L00

Wall Street Sewage System update

Just to let readers of our blog know, that the weekend's work on the pump system and increase in flow efficiency has resulted today in the pit fluid level going down to the position of the pump, which is 4.5 metres down from floor level, a really big difference to what we saw before getting the key - back then the sewer pit was almost full, only half a metre down from floor level.

Our aim is to get the fluid levels in the galleries / manholes (near Robbie & Frank) down to sensible levels - as previously this was not happening or being checked by the previous management - which risked the system being backed up with solids at the extreme end of the pipework.

Now, as the levels have dropped so much, the clay pipe entry into the sewer is above the water level, which should mean the rest of the system is no longer full with water.

Now we've achieved this, the pump has been set only on the timer - I re-adjusted the time-switch to run for 1 hour each night today, and will closely monitor it over the next week.

Wall Street Sewage System update

After finally obtaining the key for all residents, Puck, Andy and I took a good look at the sewage system over the weekend and did some thorough testing.

We considered several factors, how could we lift the pump more easily than I had with a friend last year, and how we could monitor levels, as it is extremely hard to measure the amount of fluid going into the system obviously.

While I looked thoroughly at the electrical installation - Andy and Puck scrutinised the pumping.

I started out by first measured the average current to three phase pump, approx 1.8 Amps on a single phase, I also tested the pump under startup load, no problems either so the pump looks like it is electrically sound.

What was surprising was that after 8 years of maintenance, and pump specialists looking at the pump, nobody had realised that the pump itself had not been earthed, and the armoured cable to the control box had been linked to the contactor with a piece of 3 core mains flex! Whilst this would be ok in some situations, if the pump is double insulated and IP rated for immersion, the pump is actually suspended on a steel chain connected to the body of the steel pump outer casing. This means that should a fault develop inside the pump electrically, anyone touching the chains would most likely be electrocuted or at least get a very nasty 415 Volt shock - and with an open manhole that is 5 metres deep - thats a very dangerous situation!

I also discovered that there was a fault with the earth spike for the building, as when I put in a temporary earth, the motor tripped out, which made me realise someone had previously made a decision to not attach an earth to the pump rather than spending 5 pounds on an earth spike and making off the armoured cable sheath properly (which is an earth!)

Andy started to fit a ratchet chain block kindly supplied by Puck and tackle and a frame to support it, to enable us to raise and examine the pump more easily while I started to investigate the best way of fitting a time-switch onto the system.

I switched the pump on at 1.30am and it was switched off in the morning at 7.30am - At 10:30am on Sunday further investigation was made (removal of the outlet hose outside the building) proved that the pump was doing very little, with black sludge coming up - a trickle, rather than gushing out of the 2 inch pipe. This explained why the level in the sewer wasn't moving. Andy calculated 2 cubic metres had been shifted overnight. It was quite clear that the pump isn't doing its job, as a 2kw pump should shift that sort of quantity in an hour - even a pond fountain 400Watt pump would do better than that!

We lifted the pump, which of course with the right kit is now pretty easy thanks to our collective expertise and equipment - we discovered that the position of pump vertically is crucial to flow, if the pump is positioned too low, then it can't cope with the "black sludge" - and does very little. As soon as the pump was raised a few inches, and started again, we had a full flow outside.

I replaced the old timeswitch, which I had fitted yesterday - which didn't seem to advance, over to a low-cost plug in version, which will be more easy to replace in the event of a fault, and re-wired the previous control box so that the emergency stop button would function again.

The timeswitch has now been set to run from 1.30am to 5.30am in the morning, so we can take advantage of night electicity rates (economy 7). As the pit was still quite high, we decided to override the timeswitch from 2pm onwards to reduce the pit's fluid levels and get the manholes down the road back to a sensible low level.

Andy will look at the old pump unit and attempt to refurbish it, and my next job next weekend will be to fit a proper earth spike and run an earth cable to the pump connection in the control box to make it completely safe.

We also discussed investigating the flow rate at the end of the pipe at the sewage works, so we will investigate that in due course.

Very High Tide across Beach Road & Ray Creek!

My Stepdad today noticed how high the tide was at midday today while walking his dog - for a Lee-Over-Sands resident like me who lives behind the sea-wall and not owning a dog to walk regularly has meant that I've always been blissfully unaware of how high the tide gets sometimes across the "other side" of our sea-defences.

I was pretty amazed at what I saw... The creek had vanished.... and the sea was at the foot of the sea-wall height, approx 2-3 metres from the top.

Amazing stuff - and for residents of Wall Street who would be otherwise under water, as you can clearly see from the picture below...

you can see the difference in height between properties on the Beach Road side compared to Wall Street...




...Its good to see the seawall is doing its thing - well - it will until 2050 apparently, which is when all maintenance of the sea-defences will be cancelled!

Residents Association & Sewage Meeting for Option 3

13 Residents/Homeowners met half way down Wall Street on Sunday at 12pm to discuss and make a final decision on "Option 3" as proposed by Frank at the last meeting.

Of the 10 eligable households, 8 were in agreement with Frank's suggestion that we should all run the sewage system via an elected committee and make use of all of our skills. Unfortunately despite this landslide majority, the only two households that disagreed were Phil and Andy King, who between themselves had decided after the last meeting much to our dismay took things into their own hands and took control. Despite the fact that the last vote was not unanimous (see previous post).

We discussed Franks proposal, and there was a landslide majority - that we would all manage the pump - questions were asked about why people who don't reside have a key - Frank's wife made a very good point about why the key had been issued to Andy and his father in-law, and who had the right to make such a  decision  for all of us. This seemed to polarise attitudes for all residents and the meeting then seemed to turn on the current keyholders. At the end of the discussion we said that as it was quite clear that opinions had changed that we should take control asap - we then asked who had the key now, Andy King answered - the group then informed him that Andy H & Derek will need the keys immediately so we can examine the condition of the pump equipment and start making our analysis of the situation.

They stated to everyone that they would not hand over the keys to the new majority, citing that the owners of the pump room would not agree with it. Regrettably Andy left the proceedings, followed 20 minutes later by Phil, as things were clearly not going the way they had hoped.

The rest of us, the majority of 8 households - then formally proposed and voted on a residents comittee who would be formally in charge of pump management, and be accountable to all residents - first a treasurer, Puck (Mark Burgess) and Frank Bollu as chairman of the residents committee.

We stated that our first mission is to get the padlock removed so the elected comittee can run the sewage system in the way the majority of residents want it to be handled.

Talks are currently going on to this end with Puck and Andy King.